The Muse nº3 podcast - Liz Migliorelli on plants and love

you can also listen on Spotify here.

A conversation with Liz Migliorelli, founder of Sister Spinster, on how she fell in love with plants, how we can too, and how we can use them to fall more deeply in love with life and other humans.

You can read the full transcript below. Please note that it is AI-generated and full of typos <3

Olivia -

Welcome, everyone. We're here for another episode of the Muse podcast. And our guest today is Liz Meliorelli, who is an herbalist and um flower essence practitioner based in the Hudson Valley area in upstate New York. And um she's been a teacher of mine in various contexts for over the last few years. And um I've also worked with her personally um to formulate herbal remedies and flower essences. And she is just a fountain of knowledge about myth and flowers and the energetics of plants. um So I'll let her introduce herself and give a little context on um maybe just what your practice is currently and what you're teaching and then also we can segue into sort of your origin story with plants once you introduce yourself a little bit.

Liz -

That sounds great. Thanks, Olivia. um Hi, everyone. I am Liz, and I am an herbalist. And that, I guess, means a lot of different things, which is that I'm a clinician. I have a clinical apothecary and client practice where I work with people one-on-one um in regards to their physical health, mental health, spiritual health, magical workings as well, of course, and all of that. It's sort of omnidirectional in practice. I'm also a teacher, and I have a few different year-round programs that I offer. um One is called Herbal Mystery School, where we work deeply with one plant a month over the course of nine months. um And then I have a program called Flowering Round, which is a flower essence practitioner training. um And yeah, I teach a lot of classes on sort of mythopoetic herbalism, making and using flower essences. I have a class called Turning Towards the Flower that explores place-based medicine making, essence making. um And I also teach a lot around old European folk traditions um in regards to healing and magic um and seasonal energetics as well and um weaving weaving in ancestral practices is a really big part of my work and I also offer a class called Becoming Kin which is a class on ancestral remembrance work. So those are some of the things I do. I also used to have a product line um under the name Sister Spencer, which is currently on hold, but is coming back this year um with all new formulas, which is very exciting and also taking a very long time. And what else do I do? I mean, there's other things in there for sure. But that's sort of like the three main branches of sort of my more public facing work. And you um yeah, it's kind of all developed or has maybe grown rather organically um in regards to kind of how I started doing this work and how I became an herbalist, um which is that when I was eighteen I was pretty ill and unwell and had a lot of different health issues going on that had sort of just been a culmination of lifelong imbalances. um And was living with a woman at the time named Maeve, which in myth, in Celtic myth, Maeve is the queen of the fairies. So of course Maeve is gonna offer some kind of magic in my life. This woman may have asked me if I had ever worked with stinging nettle before and I hadn't. I grew up in New York City and um yeah just did not was not a big plant person, but I was living in Washington state at the time. and She took me out to meet Nettles and she taught me how to sing to them when you harvest them so that they don't sting you. And I started working with Nettles on a daily basis and really felt my physical experience of my body started to shift um my mental state and also just like my spirit totally transformed working with nettles. I think nettles are sort of like a gateway drug for a lot of people into herbalism. um It seems to be like a big plant for people that kind of opens the portal into Yeah, a different way of being in the world. um So yeah, I started working with Nettles and um they really brought me to a completely different understanding around health and in that, like, my whole childhood, I had just gone to doctors and, you know, received their guidance and instruction and um kind of outsourced my intuitive knowing or my my physical experience of just like, oh, I'm waiting for them to tell me what's wrong with myself rather than trusting and and learning to kind of hear my own experience is true. What really changed that for me and that I was really able to listen to myself and my intuition and started to put different things into practice that I knew that would help me um that were sort of outside of Western medicine. um And that's, yeah, I just sort of fell in love and never kind of emerged out from the Nettle land. I kind of stayed stayed would have been with the plant since then so I then continued my studies, went to herb school in the Bay Area after that and really started my like clinical practice in 2013 and had an herb school in Mendocino, California where I lived for a little while and have recently moved back home to New York, um, where I'm attending an apple orchard and growing a lot of plants. I guess that's another part of my herbalist job is growing, growing medicine, um, and making medicine. Um, so yeah, now I'm here and, um, still as in love with nettles as I was back at age 18. What was your gateway plant? I would love to know.

Olivia -

I think Skullcap and chamomile were like kind of in combination. like that was When I was living in New York City, I don't even remember who it was, but they were like, try these. I think I went to like a random herb store in the West Village and they were like, try school cap and chamomile and so that was like my brew for a very long time and had something out to California and to study herbalism more deeply.

Liz -

Amazing. I love hearing like the first plant of other plant people.

Olivia -

Yeah, there's something so special about The first time that you experienced plants like outside of a tea bag, like I think that was like my only experience of herbs before was just like this sort of paper bag that I didn't even know it was in them. And then yeah, actually plants like in water is so beautiful.

Liz -

Yeah. I mean, It's really, it's something that is really so simple, but just like totally life changing. And it's just, it's almost like I feel kind of silly sometimes suggesting people like the life changing capacity of tea of like making a really strong infusion. And, um, but it really is, I mean, the difference between like a kind of dusty tea bag with a tiny, with not enough medicine in it versus like a really strong metal infusion is yeah, it's like two entirely different things completely.

Olivia -

Yeah, totally.

Well, because it's February, now I can't believe that it is February, but it is, I um i thought love would be a ah good theme to focus on with Valentine's Day coming up. And um love is such a broad topic. I feel like the older I get, the more I'm like, you know, love, there are just so many different aspects to that. um But I guess that's sort of an intro lens. um I was doing a ah Kundalini practice yesterday with um a teacher named Birjwan, who I love. She's based in Mallorca. And she was talking about how as humans, and I'm sure animals are the same, we're like always seeking union, we're always seeking union with the divine, really, but it's like, we seek that through our um romantic relationships, and we seek that through spiritual practice, and we seek that through eating beautiful food or, um you know, all of these ways that we're just like wanting to bring ourselves into pleasure and delight, I guess, and um So I've been thinking a lot about just like the context for love, without love. And we will talk more specifically about romantic love too in this conversation. But I think just like, what do you think the plants have to say about sort of creating like the the backdrop for love in our nervous systems, in our lives? and And are there plants that you feel like specifically allow for that or or open us up to that that you've worked with?

Liz -

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it, it is sort of funny that we sort of started with like our gateway plants, you know, just because I feel like that is the first plant that kind of comes up for me and that thinking of just like, Oh, the first plant that I have really fell in love with in, in that way. You know, I don't, I don't have, I don't want to like speak for the plants in terms of what they might or might not have to say about love and that like, there's so many plants and there's so many, I'm sure they all have really different opinions. They all have very different voices. But I do, what I do feel about working with the plants is that it is sort of similar to the practice of being committed to this idea of love or like working towards love in one's life, right? Where working with the plants is something that strengthens us in the same way that love strengthens us and working with the plants kind of remakes us and rewires us in the same way that love has the capacity of doing that too. Like they they really increase our capacity for vitality and and this sort of sense of like embodiment and being in relationship with the world around us in a very different way, which is kind of like similar to me of the experience of being in love where the world, when you feel like you're in intimacy with the world around you, It's a very, very different experience than one of like isolation or aloneness or feeling disconnected, right? And so for me, I think working with the plants has brought me into an experience of love in that I am able to sense real intimacy with the world around me in a way that I don't think I've felt at various points in my life for a very, very long time. And not that it's like always every day, I'm like floating on cloud nine. That's not what I'm saying at all. But I think that there's sort of this like, yeah, I don't know. It allow working with the plants feel similar to that experience of love of just like being trusting and open and willing to engage intimately with the world.

And I think that the plants also increase our capacity for that. And so, yeah, it's like, and maybe that is what they're doing, is that they make our, I don't know, they like make our experience of love stronger, ah or, you know, maybe like uniquely tinted with green and in the plant in the plant realm, but I just, there is this experience of, um moving out from like an individual focus um and into this sort of collective divine experience that I do feel with the plants. I mean that what your teacher was saying about that union really is something that I feel very strongly with the plants is like there's this invitation of of being in a relationship with the world or with spirit in a really profound way. And to me, there's been like so many times over and over again where the plants also invite me into that. So they feel like they're in resonance in some big way that I, it almost feels like too mysterious to have language for sometimes.

Olivia -

But it is, I mean, as you were talking, it's like, well, we are in relationship with these plants as we're working with them, just like, you know, but we would be in relationship with any being, you know, like with a human being and learning from them, like we're learning from, um yeah, from these plants, too. It's very profound.

Liz -

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, and sometimes like, yeah, sometimes they ask a lot from us in those relationships and other times they're very generous and you know, it they're, they're very much like people in that way. um The needs change and personalities differ. um But yeah, certainly I think that so many of the plant relationships in my life are just as important as my my human friendships. And I'm in intimacy with, or I'm in intimate relationship with a lot of plants, kind of sometimes more so than with humans.

Olivia -

Yeah, I'm curious. um On a practical level, when you are entering into a relationship with a plant, do you typically And maybe you can speak to this for your clients too. Do you typically say like, I'm going to be in relationship with Nettle or with Chamomile for a month? Or do you often make a blend and you're like, this is my blend for a month? Or or just like, what is your way of kind of like starting a new relationship with um a plant just for anyone listening who, you know, doesn't have experience with herbs and is curious about that?

Liz -

Yeah, it's a great question. um I think it really differs kind of depending like why I'm entering into a relationship with a plant, right? like Is it that there's a really specific kind of medical need, then I think the timing and dosing and frequency around it probably shifts. But just in terms of like the general, like I really want to know this plant. I want to become their friend. I mean, I feel like I often use the language of courtship around plants like it does feel very romantic in that way of I sort of I always ask my students like who's winking at you out there right like who's kind of caught your eye or who has your attention like where are you just feeling this sense of attraction really to a plant, whether it be because their flower is really intriguing to you or their scent or like a dream that you had about them. And so it's kind of like following these little clues of communication and also intuitive knowing, magic, some might say, um but really like listening to the universe kind of speak around you, um speak to you, speak through you, and then following that. um So if there is a plant, I'm looking at my window right now and I'm looking at a big Linden tree that is very much asleep in February, but like looking at it. And I think, I mean, yeah, if you could give that plant a month, that would be incredible. But I also sort of see just like a friend, you know, sometimes it takes a little bit of time to build momentum with a friendship or a partnership, you know, it could be that you drink a tea of Linden for a month, or maybe there's certain seasons where you come back to it. For me, there's like never an end game here. Like it's not about reaching a certain goal. It's just about continuing to deepen into the relationship. So, right? Like it it does feel like a romantic partnership in that way of just like, how much deeper can the relationship go? But I think if you, if someone could devote even just a week of like, I want to drink this tea every day for one week and then see just how I feel at the end of it. And if it's still feeling good, like but let's keep it going. um I just try to encourage clients and students to stay open to the relationship that they're being invited into and kind of following that lead and seeing where that takes them.

Olivia -

Cool. Yeah, good advice for human relationships, too.

Liz -

Totally.

Olivia -

Very cool. um Okay, so I would love to pivot a tiny bit into romantic love, specifically as a topic and you know you being a a knower of like magical relationships with plants too, I'm curious about love spells and love potions and what you know of of that in folklore and even stuff that you've tried in your own practice and journey. Yeah, I'm just thinking about people who maybe are calling in love in this moment in their lives and like, yeah, what some magical tools are with plants for that if you know of any?

Liz -

Yeah, and there's so many. um So we could look to sort of European folk magic practice around love spells and love charms, um where There's a creation of, you know, I feel like stereotypically you're going to hear about like a potion that someone imbibes and drinks down, um which I actually think is kind of less common traditionally than something like crafting a kind of object or an amulet, like something that would kind of attract something that you can like wear on your on your body. Or maybe it's like actually kind of working a physical spell of some kind like, you know, stating the intention and then burning it in a fire for like passion or you know kind of soaking it in water for juiciness or something like that you know it's there's it's less i feel like i see less examples of the kind of imbibing than i do um the actual kind of physical action of some kind not that imbibe or not that drink making a love potion isn't also kind of a physical act because it's certainly a creative spell as well. But um there's such a wide range I think is what I'm trying to say here. um And so we see examples of like, maybe certain animals and plants that are associated with different love gods or goddesses or planets or um yeah certain kind of energetic qualities. um So it could be something like ah frogs were really commonly used in different countries throughout Europe as as charms and love spells because frogs are seen as super fertile, right? Like they're associated with springtime, they have a lot of babies, they um you know they live in these like wet fertile places and um their calls were often associated of these associated with these times of of great fertility so it could be a fertility of the land so to speak and so it could be something and like yeah you add a little frog into a brew that you're making that also that position of the frog is like seen as a very fertile position right like that's sort of the position that a lot of people give birth in is like that frog squatting position so it has so many associations with fertility or it could be um you know a plant like yarrow has a lot of lore um kind of circulating around it um in regards to love spells. And mainly, I have found that Yarrow kind of works more in the self-love spell zone, where it kind of increases our compassion towards ourselves, our trusting in our own experience, which then allows us to kind of not be in maybe codependent relationships in such a way. But yeah, you could kind of conjure up anything that brings you into the resonance of love. I think that that's the thing that I try to focus on. So, and like what what are your associations with that? That's sort of like what I always kind of ask people in this way is like, what is your feeling around, like what are the qualities of love that you want to invoke? And then what are the plants or the animals or the elements that kind of match those qualities and so you know we see a lot of old love spells for example that suggest harvesting the morning dew on a certain you know day that either has astrological resonance or has resonance with a certain saint or a certain deity um right like St. Brigid's Day, which just passed. There's an old tradition of kind of putting some cloth from maybe clothing of yours, like a piece of fabric or um any kind of fabric that you have that you can then wear and be blessed with her magic and her fertility and her powers um because it said that she visits the land on the eve of her feast day and then um yeah you that cloth is then imbued with the dew of her magic and then you get to kind of use that for whatever you want. And so it makes me think just about like what the need is and then what, how is it that you kind of want to collaborate with the world around you, right? Like that to me is what magic is, is sort of how we're in collaboration with the world around us and what is it that speaks to us and what wants to kind of, yeah, enter into like play with us in in some way, one way or another. So, where I'm going with this really is just that like it could look like a lot of different things and also I don't recommend directing love spells specifically to a person. um For me and generally what we do see in folk tradition is you know this idea of like opening to a lover, right opening to partnership, opening to this experience of love rather than trying to have power over someone. um right like it's It's again entering that collaborative zone where it's like, I'm opening the book, let me see who responds at their own will, who responds with a free choice rather than, oh, I want to direct it towards the specific person. um And so I think that the spells that allow free will are more important. And, you know, magic is about power from within and really like grounding into our power from within rather than applying power over other people. um And so for me, sometimes what that might mean is like spending a few days um maybe in devotion to Venus - right like invoking Venus in my life by using roses a lot and lighting candles and having sensual bath time or you know eating sexy foods or something and rather than me lighting a candle and being like I want this specific person to come to me um so it's about like creating the the resonance of of love and seeing what responds and being open to what responds. That's more of the approach that I would take.

Olivia -

Thank you, that's so insightful and makes a lot of sense. And yeah, is more um meaningful than directed spell work, I think, because it's like, you're trusting the as you said, the co the collaboration of the universe and of these different forces.

Liz -

Yeah, there's a lot of, you know, examples of like, old kinds of, um, magical practice like knot magic like this idea of tying knots in thread or in certain pieces of fabric of clothing um and that like with every knot that you tie it kind of ties a certain person to you and or you know it's like a it's a kind of binding magic right to bind someone to you in that way and i feel like there's just like there's a lot of that in the world and that we've seen that hasn't led to great results. And I just feel like, you know, it can be more that we we bind the the resonance of love to us rather than, yeah, again, like exerting power over a specific person or a specific thing. And I think um Yeah, the more that we can, I have found personally, like in my experience of working with plants and magic in this way, is that the more that I kind of do these spells of just increasing the experience or the resonance of love in my own life that I feel it come back to me like over and over and over again and in bigger and bigger ways. um So it's less about like trying to manipulate or control versus an invitation.

Olivia -

Totally. Okay, I would love um to talk about two types of herbs, if they're just like some go tos that you have in both of these categories. The first one being just creating that resonance, as you were saying, and maybe and what I'm hearing out of that is really just creating ah resonance of self-love. So you mentioned Yarrow as being maybe one of those herbs. I'm curious if there are some others that just jump to mind that are kind of like, you know, just like putting us into a state of openness and nervous system ease and self-compassion. And then the second category is which we can get to in a moment, is aphrodisiacs and kind of like things that actually amplify. like If we are with a partner or wanting to explore self-pleasure practices, like what is something that actually brings in that energy, which is a little bit different and more directed, I think.

Liz -

Yeah, so I think for creating the resonance of love. I mean I gotta go I gotta go with the rose family, you know, and it it feels, and I kind of there's this part of me that it's just like, Oh, Liz, people are going to not be interested in what you have to say about this, because everyone knows that roses for that. But it really makes me angry how Hallmark has like co-opted roses and made them, I don't know, like heteronormative and kind of boring and I don't Yeah, that that's, that's what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about is the the capacity for rows to open each and every one of us up to like, sensory delight of the world. Rose is so calming to the nervous system, so nourishing to the nervous system, um that it really allows us to like relax into the experience of embodiment and really open to the lush, erotic, and I don't just mean that in like a sexual way, I mean like the true, I mean the erotic as like the force that vibrates through all ah things that are alive on earth. But really opens us up to this like lush, erotic aliveness of the world around us. um And I mean there is a reason, right, why it's Hallmark or why it's been co-opted by Hallmark and like Valentine's Day and is sort of used as the symbol for romantic love, but truly what it does is it brings us into resonance with like the aliveness of the world and really opens our heart spaces. I mean, it's also like a heart tonic. It strengthens and tonifies the heart. It's also a great hormonal balancer. And it just really like, gosh, I mean, it kind of brings us into this experience of opening into life again. And so for me, it's a great plant to use when we feel like we've been sort of closed off or shut down to that experience of eroticism or that experience of lushness of life of like sensual pleasure of really being in your body and you know feeling I don't know like feeling your blood circulating throughout your body like that's that's really what rose kind of brings us into which is so deeply profound and so powerful um and all of the rose family plants have this capacity so we can really we can work with rose. We can work with Hawthorne, we can work with Apple, Quince, Blackberry, Rowan. I would say that all of the Rose family plants really have this capacity for bringing us into our bodies so that we can feel into the fertility of life and letting that that life force move through us. It like helps us bring fruit into the world. And that fruit could be, like sure, literally a baby. Or it could also be um creative work and just like how we offer our love to the world creatively. Yeah, just like a deepening of relationship to to all things, right? Like fruit is is an offering to the world. um So yeah, that to me, the Rose family kind of checks all the boxes and there's a lot of plants within that family to work to work in. And I think that also all of the plants in the Rose family have this because a lot of them speak to the nervous system and really nourish the nervous system. um It allows us to do this work of coming into aliveness where we also feel safe in our bodies where, and I think for so many people, like when there's been so much trauma or so much um disembodiment, so much disconnection coming into the body can feel kind of scary. And so the Rose family can hold us and feeling safely embodied, which is such, such a gift. So, that's where I would start with that. I guess it's kind of big.

Olivia -

Yeah, no, I love that. I mean, I think you've talked about in the classes I've taken with you how in myth and in stories, often there are plants and usually that's because they mean something having to do with what that story is about. So it makes so much sense that actually Rose, like ingesting Rose has to do with love and opening up to love, but it's something that, you know, I've never put together, really, even though I am an herbalist. I've never been like, oh, that's why people give roses. you know it's like It's something that's come out of folklore because it actually has this power. And that's why we use it in these stories. And it's become the symbol of like giving roses means romantic love. But yeah, so fascinating.

Liz -

Yeah, I mean, I guess that's that thing about like, it being so commercialized is that it's just becomes like a thing you buy where it's like an empty symbol. Whereas to actually work with Rose to actually dose with Rose on a daily basis. literally, it like changes your cellular structure. Whereas just like, yeah, gifting the dozen roses on Valentine's Day is like such a hollowed version of what that relationship to rose maybe once was or, you know, it's like, it's the commercialized version of that, which I think kind of you know, it, it's not rose and it's like truest power which is that, which is one of like real relationship of like imbibing it and working with it and calling it in and sleeping with it and bathing with it and um putting it in all of your foods and Rubbing yourself in its oils like that is such a different thing of what we're talking about rather than this sort of like hollowed version of it, but um That's what happens, you know with capitalism.

Olivia -

Absolutely. Yes, yes, I side note have just started using this rose face oil and it's like every time I put it on it's like a complete nervous system like experience like I'm just like this it's like I just want to like become it or something like it's just like such a strong just the smell of it is that is so intoxicating. And yeah, it's like, we don't think about that or work with it in that way.

Liz -

Yeah, yeah, it's, and I think people are really closed off to it because of that commercial sense of it. But it is like, oh, when you're actually doing it, you understand the potency of it. And yeah, I love that that's even possible, like the feeling of that through a facial oil, because you know the face sort of, even that idea of like working working with the face, right? It seems like something that's really superficial. And I think a lot of people equate skincare to sort of being concerned about a superficial thing. But I remember the first time I ever got a facial, I like cried because i I realized like how much tension and how much stress I hold in my face and how powerful it felt to actually really deeply care for and pay attention to this part of me that is interacting with the world all of the time. And so the idea of like offering Rose to this place in my body that holds a lot was so, you know, it's such a powerful thing. And yeah, it's, it's a really good example of that.

Olivia -

Cool. so Okay, so first category, second category, I mean, maybe Rose also is an aphrodisiac, probably. um But are there any other herbs that come to mind for that specific energy?

Liz

Yes, for sure. Um, I mean, there's so there's a lot I feel like aphrodisiacs. Gosh, I mean, how to how to like begin, where to begin. I feel like the word aphrodisiac kind of brings up a lot of different things for different people. um For some people, there's just this sort of association of like an aphrodisiac is an herb that like helps you get it on, which is certainly true um in that you know some of the like medicinal actions of an aphrodisiac is that some of them, not all of them, but they directly increase blood flow to the tissue of your pelvic floor, right? Where they're like, okay, we're sending circulating energy to the genital tissue. Some aphrodisiacs kind of increase that sense of like juiciness in the body. A teacher of Man Cara Seagler would always say it's your unctuousness that sort of gets and enhanced with an aphrodisiac. Some of them like tighten and tonify the genital tissue. um But I also think that aphrodisiacs in general are just kind of tonics, like herbs that we can work with on a daily basis that help to relax our nervous system and to bring us into better health and stamina and just sort of like maybe shift our sometimes hormonal experience but also maybe just perception or mood of like do you feel dull about the world and maybe a few months of working with an aphrodisiac gets you feeling horny, you know, it gets you feeling excited about life again, and in that kind of way. And so sometimes, um I think an aphrodisiac can be something that is just like a relaxing, nervy, right, an herb that allows you to feel comfortable and maybe not super stressed out at the moment. I think so many of us are really stressed out specifically at this present moment in time and you know, when I'm really stressed, I don't want to do it like that. It's not something that's in the forefront of my mind. um And I think that if there are herbs that can help us to like balance stress levels, and bring us more into our bodies, right, because when stress hormones are running through our bodies, um stress Hormones send all of our energy to our extremities like to our feet and to our hands um Our digestion stops working um Because we're in that like fight-or-flight freeze state um so everything inside like that place where like sexual drive comes from gets turned off and so sometimes it's just about, you know, decreasing stress levels enough with something like, for me, Passion Flower is a really big one. I love Passion Flower for that reason where it's like you're the type of person who can't get your to-do list out of your head and you're just always thinking about that. Passion Flower helps to kind of turn the mind off a little bit and help you ground into what is actually happening in your body right now. um Intimacy requires trust, right? And so if we're not in a trusting place because we're stressed out, then we need to we need to kind of invoke maybe some nervous or something that would help to calm that. um So there's like a whole category of you know relaxing nervous that could help with balancing stress levels and just kind of allowing us to maybe open to this experience of getting in the mood. um But also then there's, you know, other herbs that can help to increase blood flow to the dental tissue. Like, you know, Damiana is like a classic one for for that. Maca is another ginger ginkgo. um There's a great book called Botanica Erotica by, I think her name is Deanna DeLuca. It's a wonderful book. um And I think that she says that the mind is the place, I'm really kind of screwing up her beautiful language around this, but it's like the mind is the place where um like sexual attraction begins right and so kind of stimulating the mind with like rosemary or ganko um would be a way to kind of increase that experience of um yeah wanting wanting to get it on. There's also, you know, hormone balancing herbs, something like shatavari, which is an Ayurvedic herb from India, which in Sanskrit, the translation of shatavari is she who has a thousand husbands. And so that kind of gives you an example of what Shatavari does. And it's also regulating the pituitary gland in the body and helping to balance balance your hormones. So there's a lot of others. I mean, I could go into more if you want, but I can pause.

Olivia -

Yeah. Yeah, no, that's great. And I think it it does just speak to the multifacetedness of this. And I've been reading about that too. Yeah, but there's a book I'm reading called Come As You Are, maybe you've come across it, but it's all about how like we have accelerators and decelerators in our sexual experience. And like a lot of it really does have to do with context and the nervous system and feeling like you know we even have the space to go there. And so, yeah, addressing all of those different facets with herbs.

Liz -

There's a lot of ways into it. like I think you could also just think of it as simply like what brings you into sensory delight, right? Because so much about the act of sex is you know so much about physical embodiment. And um so it's like, OK, what is it that delights the senses for you? Is it cinnamon, cardamom, is it ginger? Is it coriander? Right? Like there could be, I think even just thinking about like, what do you have on the spice rack? You know, what's there that kind of excites you in that way and just even like cooking with more spices, right, to spice it up. Literally, it's like such a bad pun, but that is, that is what we're doing. Or is it vanilla or star anise? I mean, there's just so many. It is like, what brings you into delight? What is it that you're attracted to and really increasing your experience with that as much as possible. And all of those spaces are generally warming and moving to the blood to your energy. And I think in just like a time where Yeah, there's a there's like a real numbing that we are doing kind of culturally collectively. um I feel like that's at least like how I respond to stress a lot is to sort of dissociate or like check out or shut down. um I think aphrodisiacs again can kind of just like bring us back into aliveness and into a sense of power in our bodies, um especially when it feels like our stress has power over us, right? So it's like bringing us back into this remembrance of our blood circulating throughout our body is something just as simple as cinnamon, like it could be that that easy. And I mean, it's probably not that easy, but it is just like a simple a simple tool that could be incorporated in the daily of like, sprinkling a little bit of cinnamon into your coffee or, you know, with it more.

Olivia -

Yeah. Right. I love that invitation of just the spice rack and like figuring out how to, how to bring that aliveness in more. The simple things, not like, you know, changing up your whole routine and figuring out how to, you know, make a tea blend if you don't have time to make a tea blend right now, but. and

Liz -

Totally. Totally.

Olivia -

Well, I could talk to you forever about this, but we should probably wrap up um soon just for people's listening attention spans. But I guess just to close out knowing how stressed people are right now and just the fear that is present, what's like one herb or two herbs that someone could just go to a grocery store and buy, you know, like a tea, like an herbal tea of that like you think would be helpful for someone just to like drink throughout the day.

Liz -

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Well, I will say rose just because we talked about it so much and it's pretty common and available, um but in sort of like a different, an herb that moves in a different direction. I'm drinking a ton of burdock right now, burdock root, which can often be purchased fresh as like a fresh root in, you know, some health food stores. um It's often, under the name gobo root, um especially like Asian markets. But you can also buy it dry generally in like a bulk herb section. um And I'm leaning on burdock a lot right now because burdock is a liver tonic and it's a bitter. And for me, I noticed that when I'm stressed out, my digestion tends to go. It's like my system gets into overwhelm and then I have difficulty kind of metabolizing things and I tend to just shut down. And I'm speaking of that like physically and energetically metabolizing where I feel really overwhelmed by how much information is coming in and I'm unable to like metabolize everything at once. And so Burdock kind of does this both physically and magically for for us, which is so generous of them. um i burdock is also it's, you know, it's tonifying the liver, which is like a really big filter and processor of our in our bodies and burdock really filters out that which is not helpful to us. And so it can help us process anger, it can help us process fear, it can help us process anxiety. um I'm seeing this a lot with like clients right now where a lot of people are just like dreaming about anxious, frenetic situations where it's like I'm lost at an airport and I just like can't get out because there's like so much going on and I think that that is just sort of how people's day-to-days are feeling right now and so Bardock can kind of act as like this bouncer in a way like the club bouncer where they're like, you know, you don't get to come in because you're going to cause more anxiety or something like that. So burdock is super nutritive. It has so many minerals and nutrients in it that really feed our blood and helps clear our skin, if our skin is something and that gets affected when we get stressed out. um it It's just like a great grounding, rooting food. And so I'm just drinking it a lot to, again, kind of feel that rooted embodiment, helping to kind of filter out any of the excess anxiety or tension that I'm feeling. And it's also still winter you know here in upstate New York. And so I'm still working with a lot of the like roots and earthy things um that helped me feel really grounded and in this season. So that would be my my big wreck for the day.

Olivia -

Well, thank you, Liz, you're such a fountain of gorgeous information. And um yeah, I just I love talking to you and learning from you about magic and plants and healing. So grateful to you for for joining me here.

Liz -

Yeah. Yeah, thank you so much for having me.